[lc]: I was talking with a friend about female ejaculation (blue/white gingham) flag, which has been: left, “into female ejaculation (yours)” and right, “make me female ejaculate”. My friend pointed out that blue/white gingham reverses all the other flags about bodily fluids – like yellow, pale yellow or cream – where left is the giving of the fluid and the right is receiving.
[max]: The idea was that blue & white gingham was a replacement for the milking (holstein) flag, where left is “milker” (bringing someone to ejaculate) and right is “milkee” (ejaculator).
[gauche]: I think originally we decided against holstein for milking/female ejaculation flag because the implied body is male (*mimes pulling action*) — or the sex act you would infer from “milking” for female bodies is not necessarily jerking off to ejaculation. And we didn’t like that association of female bodies with cows, either.
But the left/right orientation should still be the same (as other fluid flags), where left is ejaculating and right is receiving ejaculate (noun) or making someone ejaculate (verb). Otherwise there’s this anti-feminist implication that female ejaculate is more passive than male ejaculate, or perhaps that it’s bottoming because it’s humiliating.
[n.]: I think “milking” doesn’t have to be associated with that gesture – the verb “to milk” means “drawing milk” – i.e. making someone ejaculate doesn’t need to have a gender bias.
[lc]: I think that female ejaculation would be closer to the cum fetish (cream) flag. I think if we are talking about a female body, it can be “milked” through female ejaculation, but ejaculation doesn’t necessarily equal “milking” someone. You can milk without bringing someone to orgasm, or to a point where it’s not pleasurable, eg prostate milking. I think the cum flag is more about the fluid whereas the milking flag is about having a lot of that fluid, from the one person (with possible overtones of control or humiliation).
[max]: I think f.e. deserves its own flag because it’s really different from jizz, in so many ways – the most obvious being the false but popular idea that female ejaculation is elusive. I want the ability to flag f.e. specifically, for political as well as other reasons, without the ambiguity of “cum”. I think it makes sense for cream to be pan gender.
[felix]: There shouldn’t be a particular female ejaculation flag – you can just use cream with a triangle if you want to specify. But that reinforces male as default, unless you also use a symbol for cock.
[gauche]: No, we have the symbols so I can disambiguate among my own orifices — eg if I want to be fisted vaginally or anally. I don’t support using the symbols to seek particular genitals, or enabling that through another method — that goes against the queer spirit of this code and also I think its only practical use would be for trans panic. I don’t want to encourage that at all.
I think there’s a place for “milking” where it’s making someone ejaculate, where that’s your fetish and a specific bodily function you’re trying to provoke (“drawing milk” as n. said) – which is different from a cum fetish where the cum is part and parcel of someone’s orgasm.
[lc]: I don’t think cum is necessarily ‘part and parcel’ of orgasm. You can totally ejaculate without an orgasm and vice versa; often they happen simultaneously but not always. So I think that cream can totally be a female ejaculation flag and the gingham more focused on milking. Also I wish we had better terminology for female ejaculate, every other bodily function seems to have a (number of) colloquial term(s).
[max]: cum=orgasm is totally jizz-assuming.
[gauche]: The colloquial term would be squirting, and no, some vulvas always squirt when they orgasm so I don’t think it assumes jizz. I don’t see the need for a sex-specific flag but I guess being lady-like means my hankies are read as queer rather than gay – is that part of your concern, max?
[max]: No, it is jizz-assuming. In general – even queer-general – cum/ejaculation/orgasm are synonymous because of the way all things sex are default to male/male desire. Just because some vulvas squirt doesn’t take that away: some vulvas don’t, and some cocks don’t, either. That’s the reason that cum/come homonym exists. And we need to (and do) work against that: cream= cum (fluid, pan gender).
I wouldn’t say it’s about being “sex specific” in the sense of “femaleness”, more in regard to the biological fluids as different and specificity is hot. I totally want to see more transguys reclaiming their boyjizz. Clarification/consent is hot too, but I think a specific f.e. flag could be politically salient.
[lc]: I think we should change the cream flag to cum/squirt fetish, I’m currently not into having a specific female ejaculation flag. I think that firstly it places an emphasis on biological sex, all our other flags have endeavored to be non-specific about the junk you are looking for. As gauche said above, the symbols are for your own orifices, not for the ones that you are looking for.
[gauche]: I can understand having a separate flag for milking, where (as with the traditional code) left is milker and right is milkee. And I can understand that blue gingham is an improvement on holstein.
[max]: Yes. And it makes sense for the left/right positions to be reversed for blue gingham as opposed to cream, because the focus is different.
So now we have two pan gender cum-related flags:
||cum fetish (mine)
||cum fetish (yours)